Greg Sargent: This is The Daily Blast from The New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
But we want to get into what the Democratic Congress can really do about Hegseth’s disastrous reign. So we’re talking to Congressman Adam Smith of Washington State, the incoming chair of the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for coming on.
Sargent: So, on Hegseth’s tenuous position, ABC News’ Jonathan Karl spoke to the president and reported Thursday that Trump said, “I have every intention to keep him.”
And Trump even admitted it would be easier to confirm a new defense secretary before Dems control the Senate next year.
Smith: I think it’s 50-50 that Trump does get rid of Hegseth for the reasons you stated. And also because the Iran war has been a complete disaster. Trump needs a fall guy. And we all know Trump’s not going to take personal responsibility for it.
The other thing to weigh here is that on Wednesday the motion by Congressman Massie is ripe for a vote. And by every estimation, it will pass and he will be impeached. And off that goes to the Senate. Then the Senate is legally required to spend all of their time dealing with that until it’s done with.
This looks real to me, Congressman. What are you hearing from inside the Pentagon? Is there consternation?
And second of all, it’s become so much about personality. Look, there is a professionalism within the military. And that’s not that there aren’t people who serve in the military who don’t have strong political views one way or the other. There certainly are. But they’ve always put those aside in favor of the job, the mission, and working together.
We’ve had the firings that, from what we’ve heard, in many instances people have no idea why they happened. Hegseth is the first secretary of defense ever to directly involve himself in mid-level promotion decisions, you know, to go in and cross off names.
Sargent: I’m sure it is. I’m sure there would be a lot of people who’d like to see him go.
Smith: Yeah, I mean, look, they haven’t briefed us consistently on this from the very start. They have been doing attacks in the last few days, last few weeks.
Sargent: Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because it seems like there’s a vulnerable pressure point here for Democrats going forward. How much are we talking about? How much is being spent just to escort these ships out of the strait?
And also, where does it end? Iran does not appear to be interested in giving up anytime soon. So how long can we keep this up? And this isn’t even talking about all the bases that we’ve had damaged and destroyed in the Middle East, which are not calculated in that $47 billion, by the way.
Smith: Yeah, no question. I mean, the equipment that has been destroyed and the bases that have been destroyed have not been calculated into that cost. That’s just what we’ve spent.
Smith: Yeah, that’s going to be one of our big pushes, is to get some transparency and get some information provided.
Smith: There’s no easy way to do it, because Trump keeps robbing every account he can rob to keep funding it and keep moving it forward. What we will do is we will vote resoundingly to end the war. We will vote to cut off all funds that go to the war. But remember, he will still be president. He will still have veto power.
But the other part of this is, we have to end the war, but to end the war, we have to admit something that we’re not going to want to admit. We lost. Iran will be in a stronger position when this war is over than they were when it started. And we will be in a weaker position. And that’s just baked into the cake at this point.
Sargent: Trump certainly doesn’t. So just for clarification, you think that Democrats in both houses next year will pass a measure which cuts off funding, in the sense that it forbids funding for the Iran war?
Sargent: And then I think there is a case to be made for then trying to get some Republican support to override the inevitable veto. But this will be a bill, if I understand you correctly, which forbids the use of any funding for this war.
But a lot of the damage has been done. It’s not like we end the war and everything goes back to normal. Another thing that we need to really push is diplomacy. I mean, right now, Turkey, Qatar, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran are talking. Because this, it’s horrible for us. It’s horrible for much of the country. But it’s really horrible for the people in the Middle East who are having to endure this constant and spreading war.
But you pass it and it cuts off funding, Trump vetoes. Maybe you go to Republicans and say, why don’t you guys go to the president and tell him that you’re going to vote for this thing unless he exits it quietly, or give him a way out, give him an off-ramp, right? Is there a scenario like that? I mean, you’re a veteran of this stuff.
Sargent: So I want to ask you about a few things that need to be investigated. The Pentagon hasn’t released the investigation into the U.S. bombing of the girls’ school in Iran, which killed dozens and dozens of kids. What’s the Armed Services Committee going to do next year to get that?
Sargent: Subpoenas?
Sargent: There’s a strong case to be made to Republicans in Congress who have called for it: Well, OK, you want the report, you say you want the report. Well, join us in supporting a subpoena of it, right?
The executive still has a lot of power. Trump ignores Congress. Trump ignores the courts. This is going to be a very, very difficult fight, and we’re going to have to consistently push to try to get some of the changes that we want.
Smith: Sure, but we do have to be careful. You’re talking about defunding the Pentagon?
Smith: Yeah, no, I think that’s probably a good place to start.
You’ve criticized this, other Dems have criticized this. Now you’re going to have power. Is there going to be a deep and serious investigation here that gets to the bottom of how this bombing campaign came into existence? Who pushed it, who authorized it, who resisted, what’s the evidence, so forth?
Sargent: Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like? What do you try to establish in this?
Sargent: Right. And is defunding these strikes an option? I mean, let’s say they come back with—
Sargent: OK, what would have to happen for that step to be taken?
And I mean, look, before we get into all of that, I think there is going to be a legitimate effort on our part to say, hey, can we do this the easy way? Can you change these policies that are manifestly unpopular? Can you stop the war, stop the boat strikes, and move in a different direction? While at the same time being prepared to use those stronger levers that you described.
Trump’s going to tell people not to testify. This is my speculation, but it seems reasonable to expect that there’s going to be intense obstruction. They’re going to throw subpoenas in the garbage.
Smith: Well, we do. I mean, as I said, we need defense money, and pass legislation that says, no funding shall go to these particular purposes. And we’ll have to have that fight. Look, it’s going to be an ugly fight between Congress and the executive branch for the next two years. There’s no question about that.
Smith: Look, I really don’t know. I mean, and if I said I knew—anyone who says they know, it’s just—we are headed into uncharted territory here. The Trump presidency is absolutely unprecedented. He is completely unresponsive in a way that no other president has been, even after the shellacking that they took in the election.
Sargent: I do wonder whether the war can actually be defunded successfully here, or whether it’s going to actually have to come to that.
Sargent: Do you think that if it actually comes to a defunding fight, like if everything you’ve tried has failed and you vote to cut off funding for the war, do you think the leadership will be supportive of that, the Democratic leadership in Congress?
Sargent: Do you have, like, special assurance of that, or is it just speculation?
Sargent: Yeah, it has to be done. It would be a catastrophe if Democrats punted on that, don’t you think?
Sargent: Yes, it looks that way. You came out for impeachment of Donald Trump the other day. You want to just make your case?
So all of that is terrible. But the bottom line is, as long as he’s president, we can’t really trust that he’s not going to do even more incredibly damaging things. So that’s the big concern.
I think we need to try to have a cohesive—unity is an overstated way of putting it—but we’re going to have right around 260 members in the House. Getting some sort of cohesive agreement on where to go is a key part of this.
Smith: I don’t know. I don’t think they know. I mean, look, how to put this exactly? This election was primarily about, well, a couple different things. One, how terrible Trump is. His policies, certainly, but also just his general demeanor and attitude.
And then there were Trump’s policies, the tariffs, the immigration crackdown, the war in Iran and huge feeling amongst the American people that life in America fundamentally isn’t fair. And so you could go out there on the stump and you could say, I’m a farmer, I’m a veteran, I’m a teacher, I understand our community, I’m with you, I’m going to help you, I’m going to help protect you. But what does that mean in terms of policy?
Sargent: Are there clawback options that you think should be exercised to try to fund the restoration of Medicaid and stuff?
Now, and part of that is all the billionaires and multimillionaires, all the money that has gone there instead of being available for the programs we need. But those things are going to be difficult. And like I said, I think the people who run for office, they’re great people and everything, but the actual legislative solutions are going to be a lot harder.
Smith: Thanks, Greg. Thanks for the chance.
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