Greg Sargent: This is The Daily Blast from The New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
Tim Dickinson: Hey, it’s great to be with you.
Donald Trump (voiceover): It was highly disrespectful of law enforcement. The woman and her friend were highly disrespectful of law enforcement, you saw that. They were harassing, they were following for days or for hours. I think frankly they’re professional agitators. We are going to find out who’s paying for it.
Dickinson: Well, that’s their playbook, right? Anytime they see dissent—they tend to characterize it as inorganic and paid for by George Soros or some other bogeyman. And they don’t seem to either comprehend that people could disagree in good faith, or they’re just using this politically to try and crack down on left-wing dissent as though it were terrorism or some sort of organized movement that is also deserving of state violence.
Dickinson: No, and the amazing thing is that the officer’s firsthand video from the cellphone showed Renee Good saying, “I’m not mad at you.” Her lack of fear seemed to be as much the problem as her wife’s taunting him as a big boy and maybe making a fat joke about him before he switched hands, reached for his gun. So there seems to have been the officer’s rage involved in this as much as any threat to his life.
Yet what strikes me is Trump’s officials are not even acknowledging any kind of problem here. Like, ordinarily you’d have high-level government officials saying, okay, we’ve got to look at this. We do seem to have some kind of problem here. There’s something systemically wrong. Nothing. What do you make of that, Tim?
And so clearly the DHS agents are poorly trained. Folks who have experience on the Border Patrol are used to getting away with a lot. The people that they are policing are marginalized, don’t have access to lawyers, and the first resort is often to violence.
Sargent: You know, that brings up a point that I think Andrew Sullivan made that was quite powerful. He said on Twitter that these guys are operating largely with impunity, if only because in a very high-profile situation like this one, any one of these agents can essentially count on a Trump pardon at the end of the day. These guys are accustomed already to operating with something close to impunity.
Dickinson: Or have JD Vance going out and [saying] that they have absolute immunity—which isn’t technically true; there’s qualified immunity, which involves making reasonable decisions as an officer. And it seems from the video evidence that this is totally unreasonable.
Sargent: It’s absolutely appalling. I want to bring up another thing in the Wall Street Journal report—there’s another damning fact in it. It said all these incidents started with immigration agents blocking cars, but they’re not supposed to do that, are they?
Dickinson: Well, you have these very high-stakes confrontations, and this happened in Portland shortly after Renee Good’s death.
His response was to start backing up. He had a big truck, backed up into the rental car that the Border Patrol people had, and kept ramming it to try and get away. And during this ramming incident—there’s no body cam footage, which is curious—one of the Border agents just shot the guy and ended up hitting him and hitting his wife. And so that’s [the] story of these two people here locally in Portland who were shot and then drove away and ultimately had to stop and get medical help from the local authorities.
Sargent: Well, I want to bring up what Kristi Noem said. The officer’s name in the Minneapolis shooting is Jonathan Ross. We’ve seen in the videos that somebody, probably the officer himself, said “fucking bitch” after the shooting. CNN’s Jake Tapper asked Noem about this. Listen.
Kristi Noem (voiceover): I can’t determine which one it is, but it could be.
Dickinson: Well, there’s a total double standard because it was—we heard from Trump, he said that the reason for shooting essentially was that these people had shown disrespect to the officers. And here is an officer of the law empowered with deadly violence calling the person he just shot a “fucking bitch.” And so this—this idea of respect only goes one way in their view of things, right?
Sargent: Yeah, it seems very clear to me that they want people to come away with that message that you’re talking about. But luckily people are stepping up anyway.
Dickinson: Well, there were a number of speeches, and people were talking about Renee Good dying for justice, which I found kind of peculiar, but it seemed a way to try and turn her into a martyr for something bigger here—that people can look to that death not as totally senseless, but as somebody whose bravery needs to be honored, and to keep pushing forward and not retreat.
We had a local city councilor, who’s herself a Paraguayan immigrant, just vowing to hold the line as a matter of city policy and to push back against ICE, but calling on everybody there to do their part, to stand up and not—not to be intimidated, and to keep speaking out and to keep showing up and to use their privilege to fight for people who are more vulnerable.
And then there’s Trump’s own directive, which is that you never, ever admit you were wrong. You never retreat. You never apologize. You only attack, attack, attack. And I get all that. But here we’re in a situation where there are nationwide protests about a brutal killing of a person by an officer on the line of duty. They don’t want to show one shred of any indication that it troubles them at all. Maybe JD Vance has said a little bit that could be interpreted that way, but then he just undercuts it.
Dickinson: I try not to be too cynical about that, but I definitely think that’s true. I think that Trump has been eager for a casus belli, right? He wants to be able to use the military against American people—the bad guys, the enemy within. And so, to the extent that this tinderbox is getting more explosive or more combustible by the day, they, I think, welcome that as a good development.
And so that it seems to be part of the scenario that the administration has been eager for, right? Some pretext to invoke the Insurrection Act or some other authority of the president to, in fact, deploy members of the National Guard or the standing military into American cities and further project Trump’s power.
Dickinson: My pleasure. Thanks so much.
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