As the college sports landscape continues to experience big changes in recent years, the UNC athletics department has tried to adapt while limiting monumental changes itself. But it will begin a new era this summer as athletic director Bubba Cunningham transitions to the new role focused on major campus projects and advocacy around the direction of collegiate athletics.
Before the end of his time as the AD, Cunningham joined 97.9 The Hill’s Aaron Keck in studio for an interview ranging on the past, present and future of Carolina Athletics and his industry. Below are his responses to part two of the interview, which covered his concerns with the current state of college sports, UNC’s position within that landscape, and his top priorities in the new role of Senior Advisor to the Chancellor and Athletic Director.
Cunningham’s comments have been lightly edited for clarity and topics have been curated into a different sequence than the full conversation. Aaron Keck’s interview with Cunningham— including part one, which focuses on his time at Carolina and relationship with incoming AD Steve Newmark — can be listened to on-demand here and wherever you get your podcasts.
On how he sees his Senior Advisory Role taking shape and what projects he will be working on
I’m really looking forward to it. Chancellor [Lee Roberts] has been great to work with as the AD and now [I will be] working more closely with him. You know, I do think Carolina needs to be one of the national voices in college sports and our future direction. Between the lawsuits that are going on, whether it’s eligibility issues or gambling or whatever is going on…we need a seat at the table. We have a broad-based program. We have 28 teams, 750 student athletes. We have a $180 million budget. I was on a panel at the AD’s Association meeting with Ross Bjork, who is at Ohio State. He has 36 teams, over a thousand student-athletes, but they have a $300 million budget. And then at the same meeting, you have schools that have a $50 million budget or a $27 million budget, and they only have a couple hundred kids. So, how do we keep college athletics moving along, supporting the university itself? Because we are an educational institution that has an athletic program — we’re not simply an entertainment industry trying to provide opportunities for people to go to games and pay a lot of money. We have to have that balance, and Carolina needs to have a seat at the table with that discussion.
In addition to that, I think we have a lot of construction projects going on, [like] the development of Carolina North. We’re also talking about new dorms on campus, renovation of dorms. We’re increasing by 5,000 students over the next 10 years. So, all of those things I’ll be working hand-in-hand with the chancellor on. Construction projects [and] the national governance issues are probably the two that will take up the most time. And now also working with the business school, they’re trying to create a major in the business of sport.
[Dorm construction is a responsibility] only because it relates to the proximity to where the students are and what their student experience is. So, particularly in this case, we just did a renovation of Avery [Residence Hall], which overlooks the baseball stadium. Parker and Teague are on Stadium Drive. And then we also have our recreation facility on Stadium Drive. As we look at that [construction], we want to make sure that we preserve any kind of expansion or renovation to our football stadium as well. I’ve seen a lot of different college campuses and what they’ve done to modernize their campus and make it really a vibrant place for student life. And I think we have a chance to do that down the Stadium Drive corridor.
Helping advise portions of major upcoming university development projects, like Carolina North, will be part of Bubba Cunningham’s focus in his new role with UNC. (Photo via UNC/Carolina North website.)
On the future of Carolina North, the Dean Smith Center, and preparation for growing the student body
Carolina North is going to be developed. We’ve talked about that for… oh, I don’t know, 20 or 30 years. But we’re going to expand [our student body], as I said, by 5,000 students. So, we need more academic space, we need more residence halls, we need more recreation space…we need all of that. The decision on the basketball arena has been tabled. That is off the table right now for any discussion. So, we will develop Carolina North, we’ll continue to modify the existing campus to meet the needs of today’s students. As I mentioned, the Stadium Drive corridor…[and] they’re converting some of our graduate housing right now to undergraduate housing. There will be a lot of modifications to both the central campus and north campus — and the growth of [Carolina North’s] campus and the growth of this community will be really impactful.
And what that looks like three, five or 10 years from now…I’m not sure. I’m excited about being a part of that process, because I’ve spent my entire career on a college campus and I’ve seen hundreds of college campuses, and they really do feed the community. We have to be great community partners. We know we have 30,000 students, but there’s thousands of people that work and rely on the university to be successful and welcome millions to the community on an annual basis. So, we have to have a partnership that works and I think the development of that couple hundred acres up there is gonna be really good for the Chapel Hill community.
On whether college athletics will adapt to the challenges and changes they face while retaining their spirit
Yes, absolutely. I just got back, I was in Las Vegas the last couple of days at the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics, and there are a lot of different associations. There were 7,000 people that work in intercollegiate athletics. And my message to them was: it has problems. You know, the economics of what we’re doing are very, very different than they’ve ever been. The commercial activity [is] very different. Revenue share is different. NIL is different. For 30 or 40 years, we’ve been making decisions through legislation. Litigation is accelerating the pace of change, and we’re having trouble keeping up with it. That has to change. The [proposed] Protect College Sports Act actually has a lot of really good things in there that I think we need to really push and try to get something done.
In my view, there’s a handful of things that need to be done — three, really. Number one is we need to ensure that college athletics stays attached to the academy. So, anything we can do relative to the transfer portal and or eligibility standards needs to be done. And I think you’re going to need a very narrow antitrust exemption to make that happen.
Number two, I think we have to get the compensation issue right. We’ve always had scholarships [covering] room, board, books, tuition and fees. NIL changed that, rev share changes that — so what is the right compensation model for intercollegiate athletics? We have 750 student athletes [at Carolina]. A hundred of them play in two sports that generate more than they spend. Is that compensation model different than the other students that participate? If so, how do you do it? Is there an employment component to this? And can you treat some students differently than others from an employment basis?
The third piece is [amending] Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which I think is very interesting. I do believe that if you consolidate rights, you will generate more money. Now, getting the SEC and the Big 10 to want to do that, they’d have to give up an awful lot — including regular season scheduling, postseason scheduling. So, I think that would be the third thing we would do…and you probably wouldn’t do that for another five or six years [until] when the TV contracts come due. But I think we need to start thinking on a ten-year horizon, because that’s the only way we’re going to get something done that people are going to be able to agree to.
A display at the 2024 ACC Kick-Off event in Charlotte, which was the first season of the conference’s most recent expansion to add Stanford, Cal and SMU as full members. (Photo by Michael Koh/Chapel Hill Media Group.)
On future conference realignment and how that could further accelerate change in college athletics
Well, it just, it depends, you know? Does the new act, the Cruz-Cantwell bill, go through? Does it not? Are there additional cases? I mean, it’s too much guesswork to really predict where our [broadcasting and conference] contracts are going to go in the future. Will there be more consolidation? Will there be another division? Right now, we have Division I, II and III in college sports. Within Division I, it used to be I-A, II-A, III-A…now it’s Football Bowl Subdivision, Football Championship Subdivision, or no football. Is there a fourth division? Is there an autonomy division within the 1-A group? And that could happen. Do we get to a relegation/promotion model that a lot of the European soccer leagues have? Is there a super league? The Cruz-Cantwell bill says the SEC and Big 10 cannot merge. If that passes, obviously there won’t be a super league. So, there’s still a little too much ambiguity to really predict that.
I also feel like we are doing things in college athletics today that the banking industry did in 2007-2008. It’s [like it is] too big to fail. We’re overextending, we’re taking on debt that we shouldn’t be taking on. We’re looking for a bailout somehow, some way. We don’t have great regulation. Something will trip the switch here and we’ll have to change. But I’m not sure what that thing is. And hopefully it’s not failure. I thought maybe the collapse of the PAC-12 would be that, a change [in] direction. But it wasn’t. Those schools, some got absorbed — some are part of the Mountain West, some are in the ACC, some are in the Big 10. That didn’t trigger [a new approach]. So, I don’t know…maybe the Cruz-Cantwell Bill will actually be the impetus to kind of get it back on track. But it definitely needs to be modified to be successful long term.
On whether the culture or approach to athletics at UNC needs to change in order for Carolina to remain nationally competitive in college sports
Oh, our culture is outstanding. Our department is led by our coaches…the coaches lead with high integrity. The university is all about integrity, about excellence, and I truly believe [in] all of that. Do we make mistakes? Sure, we do. And are we going to continue to at times? Yes, we will. But fundamentally, our coaches believe in providing a great opportunity for our student athletes. And the mission within our department has always been — or at least it’s been for the last 15 years — we educate and inspire through athletics. Education is primary to what we do and it is very inspirational. It’s inspirational to younger generations. It’s inspirational to guys like me that watch our student athletes compete, study, and do all the things that you ask a student to do. So, I believe 100% [in the approach].
The only thing that’s different is the amount of money that’s in it, and the compensation that’s in it, and [now asking] what does the compensation model look like. But you can have great teams, you can compensate players in certain sports, and you can have broad based programming. Is it easy? Not at all. Are there challenges? A hundred percent. But I truly believe in what we provide, and what college athletic provides to the university.
Featured image by the Chapel Hill Media Group.
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