In Kaepernick’s new memoir, The Perilous Fight, the quarterback explains that his action was spontaneous. He wasn’t even in uniform on August 13, 2016, the first time he sat during the anthem. “I hadn’t given the anthem a second’s thought before I walked out onto the field that day, but it hit me in that moment that I should find a seat,” Kaepernick writes. “I didn’t want to stand up while that song was playing. Rosa Parks had refused to give up her seat on the bus to a white person in 1955. Muhammad Ali wouldn’t step forward when his name was called by the draft board for the Vietnam War in Louisville in 1967. Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised black-gloved fists in the air during the playing of the anthem at the 1968 Olympics. They didn’t like what they saw, the way this nation touted its commitment to justice and at the same time showed little interest in it, and they took action. Those inspiring Americans had the courage of their convictions and literally changed the world in the process.”
(This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity)
One, it's 10 years since the protest. I've gotten so many questions about why did I protest, what happened, what led up to it, the details behind the scenes of all of the moments. Not just the protest, but owners in the NFL, the conversations that were happening there, the workout in 2019 and all the things that transpired around that. Then also just the work that we're doing directly in the communities. It felt like it was a great time to be able to go out, answer some of those questions, and also be able to give insight into how we build, how we move forward together. I think it’s especially critical in a moment like this.
One of the reasons we wanted to start with that moment of going through the neighborhood, being tied to a rose tree, and the dynamic of not feeling comfortable telling my parents is it really sets the stage for the rest of the book, and sets the stage for the rest of my life. I had to navigate the realities that you face when you are Black in predominantly white spaces. I had so many questions around, “You lived a privileged life. Everything was all good. Middle-class white family. What are you upset about?” And from the outside looking in, I understand how it can look that way. But also the reality of the experience, and what I went through, is also something that's important to put in context.
Yeah, it's interesting because I get both sides of that question. During the 2016 season, it was like, "Why are you talking so much? Be quiet.” As an NFL quarterback, you're required to speak three times a week. So reporters can ask you whatever they would like. I'm happy to answer any questions as part of that. But post that moment, one thing I realized was, it felt like there was a very, very intentional effort to make me the sole figure, or the sole voice, of the movement. I thought it was important to create space for other voices to be able to step up. And one of the reasons that I thought that approach was so important is looking back historically, yes, we need strong leaders, but we need strong people collectively. That's actually what allows us to be able to sustain over time. Also, as part of that, I thought it was very important as they were very intentional attacks to try to discredit me, discredit what I was capable of on the field, discredit my character. In those efforts of trying to discredit me, they were also trying to discredit the broader movement.
Colin Kaepernick kneels during the national anthem flanked by Eli Harold, left, and Eric Reid, right, before an NFL game against the Dallas Cowboys in Santa Clara, Calif. on Oct. 2, 2016. —Marcio Jose Sanchez—API think there are voices across the board that have stepped up. I would say my brother Eric Reid. I'm always going to bring him up. Love Eric. He continued the protest after I was blackballed. He himself went through the same reality. His final season, [he] went out, set two franchise records, was cut, and never saw the field again. We had voices throughout the NBA step up. Whether that was LeBron, we saw Steph Curry, we saw Carmelo, we saw KD, all stepping to the forefront. We saw this with Megan Rapinoe, doing that on an international stage. We’re seeing it to this day throughout Europe. I would not have had the insight that this would have had the lasting impact internationally the way it does, and that's just within the sports realm. More broadly, what I think it’s done is created opportunities, whether it is on a national stage, international stage, or within local communities. People saying, "Oh, this actually opened the door for me to be able to do the work in a way I previously wasn't able to.”
One surreal moment early on, we had a high school, Castlemont in Oakland. After I took a knee, they went out the next week and took a knee, and I went to go visit them the following week at their game. I had a moment where I was in the locker room with them before the game. They're hyping each other up. It's going to be a big game for them. And one of the players says, "We don't get to eat at home. So we're going to go eat on this field.”
Were you physically or psychologically threatened while protesting?
Were you ever scared?
Did you ever worry that what happened to you served as a warning to other athletes? That as a result of you not playing in the NFL anymore, they were quiet rather than speaking up?
The fact that they have made that a conversation, that people feel like they have to choose, that is the very thing that I have to continue to fight against. I don't think there is an either-or. We can be phenomenal at our profession. We also can advocate for our community and a better society, better conditions for our people.
No.
Because I set out with a clear goal and clear objective, and the conditions in our society have not changed. There's been progress made in some areas, but holistically, when we look at the climate and environment that we are living in today, those conditions largely have not changed. There is never going to be a moment where I take a position of, “Hey, I'll stand up so I can get my career back.” Because that then becomes a moral concession: If you threaten my career, or if you threaten my money, I will actually say I don't care about the people, and I will look at this just from an individual perspective. That was a line I was not going to cross.
There were three teams that I thought were close. The first was the Seattle Seahawks. In 2017, flew up there, met with Pete Carroll, John Schneider, the head coach and GM of the Seahawks. When I got there, basically the conversation was, “We know you're a starting quarterback.” I didn't do a
In retrospect, it was fascinating to me on a few different fronts. One, the NFL claims it’s a meritocracy. So walking in a building and telling me you know I'm a starter, and not walking out with an offer makes that fall flat on its face. The second part is I just think about it from a labor-laws perspective. Being the owner of a business, a company, I would never be able to ask those questions and get away with it.
The second one was the Ravens, and this one came about because we played against the Ravens in the Super Bowl. Jim Harbaugh was my coach during that time. His brother John Harbaugh was head coach of the Ravens, and I reached out to Jim and wanted to get his perspective. “Is there anyone that you know that would be interested? Do you think your brother would be open to a call?” John was on board and was like, "Yeah, let's do it.” John went back, advocated for it, wanted to sign me. “It got shut down from above me. I don't have the power to just outright make that decision. But if it was my choice, you would be here.” [A Ravens representative referred TIME to a 2017 quote from Baltimore general manager Ozzie Newsome—now an executive vice president with the team—who said, “(Ravens owner) Steve Bisciotti has not told us we cannot sign Colin Kaepernick, nor has he blocked the move. Whoever is making those claims is wrong.”]
That led to a follow-up conversation about me trying to play. He came and sat in my living room, and we talked about playing for the Raiders. That led to a workout with the Raiders and Josh McDaniels. Workout went great. Josh McDaniels, after the fact, was like, “He looked bigger, stronger, faster than last time saw you.” Mark Davis came in the room after. “So proud of you. That was great workout.” One of the scouts on the way back said, “I'm surprised they let you walk out of the building without signing you. That’s the best workout we've had in years from a quarterback.” Never heard from him again. [The Raiders declined to comment.]
Yeah.
He told me that was a table he was not willing to stand on. It was disappointing because prior to that he had been advocating for me. Said I should be a starter. I can help a team win championships. Had a conversation with him and said, "Look, I don't even care what the role is. Like I know Justin Herbert's there. I know the reality of what you have to navigate as a head coach. Let me take the No. 2 spot then. Let me come in, just show you, show everyone else what I can do.” Wouldn't do it. No opportunity, no workout.
Yeah. And I'll say, also in part because there was a conversation that was put out that he had offered me a coaching job, which just wasn't true. I don't know where and why that came out. That's made the relationship a little bit different since. [When asked to respond to Kaepernick’s comments to TIME about joining the Chargers as a player or coach, Harbaugh, through a Chargers spokesperson, pointed to a 2024 press conference, in which he said he “pulsed” Kaepernick’s interest in coaching.]
now?
What’s your relationship with the national anthem today? When you go to sporting events, what do you do?
Your daughter is 4. When this time is right, what will you say to her about the national anthem?
What did you say to her about it?
What are you going to tell her when she asks about why you stopped playing in the NFL?
Going back to your early life a bit – you credit your parents with raising you and having your back. But there were many moments where they weren't as sensitive to your racial experience and awakenings as you would have liked. You make that very clear in the book and don't spare your feelings about it. Have your mom and dad read the book?
How do you anticipate they'll react to it?
How would you characterize your relationship with them now?
At several points in the book, you talk about the business of the NFL in the same breath as slavery. Of being photographed in compression shorts at the draft combine, you write, “My mind immediately went to the scenes I had witnessed in numerous movies depicting slave auction blocks.” You also write, “I fully believe what happened to me was a form of buck breaking. That's a slave term to describe how masters used to whip and sexually abuse enslaved men in front of a crowd to dehumanize them and warn other slaves that they better not step out of line. I was made into a warning to other NFL players and professional athletes: You better not challenge the league's authority.” Were you ever worried that people might be offended by that?
Two news stories weren't addressed in the book. One is your decision to wear socks depicting police as cartoon pigs in 2016, before you took your public stance. That offended law enforcement personnel, and police unions in particular. Why don't you, or why do you, regret that specific decision?
It seemed to have an effect where some people would never forgive you after that. But you knew that was a risk?
The other story is the shelving of the ESPN documentary about you, directed by Spike Lee. About a year ago, ESPN said in a statement that “ESPN, Colin Kaepernick and Spike Lee have collectively decided to no longer proceed with this project as a result of certain creative differences.” What were those creative differences?
Why didn't ESPN want it?
In a recent interview, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez seemed to agree with the sentiment that “Woke 1.0 was crazy.” She was referring to the period, after the murder of George Floyd in 2020, where there were calls, for example, to defund the police. You wrote in a 2020 essay “in order to eradicate anti-Blackness, we must also abolish the police. The abolition of one without the other is impossible.” What is your response to AOC's characterization and other political characterizations that sentiments like you expressed went too far?
Do you still support abolishing policing?
You write in the book about how, in 2016, you met with your San Francisco 49ers teammates to explain in more detail why you were protesting during the anthem. You write: "I told my teammates how law enforcement in this country has always been an enemy of Black people.” In 2026, do you still feel that law enforcement in this country is an enemy of Black people?
A Nike Ad featuring American football quarterback Colin Kaepernick is on display September 8, 2018 in New York City. —Angela Weiss—AFP/Getty Images
How would you characterize how Donald Trump has treated you?
The NFL has reported giving more than $450 million to grassroots organizations to benefit communities in need. Do you see that as a sincere response to your protest or a PR play?
A protester wearing a Colin Kaepernick SF49ers jersey joins others in taking a knee, led by Former NFL wide receiver Terrell Owens in support of former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick on June 11, 2020 in Inglewood, California. —Frederic J. Brown—AFP/Getty Images
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell admitted, in 2020, that the league was wrong for not listening more closely to the message and meaning behind protests like yours. He encouraged a team to sign you. Do you forgive him?
The book details your relationship with Jay-Z, whose company, Roc Nation, partnered with the NFL in 2019 to consult on Super Bowl halftime entertainment and other performances and initiatives. Jay-Z recently brought you up in a rap lyric at Yankee Stadium, saying, “Buddy took a check, I ain’t even mad at him, but along with that check you gotta sign a non-disparagement. I’m the one they can’t control.” How would you characterize how Jay-Z has communicated with you, and used you or brought you up?
Are you surprised that DEI is under fire?
Did you make any mistakes over the past 10 years?
One that I think about a good amount is, I had intentionally taken an approach of I'm going to do my best to not call out or attack people who I disagree with. I did not want to create an environment or narrative that was centered around Black people fighting and distracting from the intention of the protest. Even with Jay-Z, I didn't go out and do interviews around that. I believe people will see the work, and my hope is in seeing the work, people will look at and say, "Oh, that's how it should be done.” But I don't know if that created additional space for people to take the narrative in places that shouldn't have gone. It's one of those things that I'm very mindful of as I move forward.
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