Greg Sargent: This is The Daily Blast from The New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
Virginia Heffernan: I’m so glad to be here, Greg. I’m a fan of the show.
Virginia, something seems to have broken here among Republicans in a way that even the murder of Renee Nicole Good, as horrific as it was, didn’t seem to. What do you think happened here?
So why is that important? That’s important because everybody saw the many videos from many different angles of this murder of Alex Pretti, and they would not accept Noem’s ludicrous propaganda. I mean, she didn’t bother to extenuate it even the way the LAPD did when they beat up Rodney King. Like, she didn’t seem to have watched the video before she invented her story about it.
Sargent: Well, we had Trump erupt over all this. He called the two senators “losers.” Then he said: “They’re terrible senators. One is gone and the other should be gone. Murkowski is always against the Republicans anyway. And Tillis decided to drop out. So he lost his voice once he did that.”
Heffernan: Yeah, I mean, it’s just been the cascading problems for him. And it’s true that he maybe doesn’t have his fastball. It’s not even clear that he would know how to throw a ball if he had it in his hand right now. mean, his... know, lunacy, dementia, whatever it is, like, there’s a clearly a mad king who’s falling apart, who’s in decline in this central place. And he ever since, you know, the Epstein files turned some Republicans against him, his refusal or failure to release them and lies around them. And now up to Tillis and Murkowski with very little to lose, Tillis especially. I mean, Tillis is very sharp. He sounds very witty right now.
Reporter (voiceover): The president called you a loser, I believe.
Sargent: Tillis also ripped the incompetence of Miller and Noem and said they’ll make officers’ jobs more dangerous. Virginia, you don’t often hear Miller described as “incompetent.” Extreme, fascist, racist, yes—but not incompetent.
Heffernan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it may begin with his just outlandish promise that he would arrest, detain, and deport 3,000 people a day—that that’s what the administration would do.
And then he thinks that Walz and the people of Minnesota should thank him for their amazing job getting the thousands of stone-cold criminals. I just decided right before we talked to look up on DHS’s own page who these “thousands of stone-cold criminals,” including murderers, are. They list—and this is their propaganda—they list eight people.
Sargent: Well, I just want to underscore what you said there, because it’s really important and it’s sort of an obsession of mine as well. They want to get the numbers up. The most important thing to Stephen Miller is removing as many immigrants from the country as possible because he’s doing an ethnic re-engineering of the country in his own head.
Heffernan: Yeah, I’m glad we’re aligned on this because there is a numbers game that you see in fascism generally, which is, like, it’s clicking through his brain, you know: what the population is, how many white people there are, what the replacement numbers are, all that eugenics stuff. And that’s how you get to numbers and not people.
Sargent: Maybe Miller really is incompetent. Maybe that’s the story that everyone’s missing. So a few other quick things here showing that Noem is on shaky ground: DHS put out an initial review of the shooting of Pretti that didn’t mention any gun or any intention to “massacre law enforcement,” as Noem had claimed.
Heffernan: I mean, they are going to turn into a circular firing squad like they always do, and Kristi Noem, it does look like her time is up. I mean, as much as Trump—he’ll be 1,000 percent behind her until he isn’t.
But the persistence of ordinary people has turned this debate around and proven that to be false. You wrote about that. You talked about the “wine moms” and white women who are horrified by this whole thing. And the white female vote is a tricky topic for sure. But what you got at there is what I’m talking about, which is that this amazing heroism and courage and persistence is really becoming a big story.
And now she says on the streets of Minneapolis—or the Twin Cities, I should say—we’re actually seeing the amendments to the Constitution defended in real time, including sort of the First, Second, and Fourth—those, right? And it’s almost like seeing it rebuilt before our eyes by actual people, including Renee Nicole Good, including Alex Pretti, including everyone there.
And all that plays very well on these videos and is so different from what you could have heard from Stephen Miller. It just looks—it looks American. It looks American. The people look American and they are a standing proof to the idea that no one is virtuous or that no one cares about democracy.
There are people before that who said, Well, the Central Park Five or the discrimination lawsuit in the 1970s—I’ve seen everything I need to know that this person should not be president. But lots of people apparently didn’t see anything, everything they needed to see. But I think that’s changing, as you said.
And just to your point about how this all looks very American: I do think that when you see these kinds of very diverse crowds turning out and showing great courage and heroism and putting themselves at risk, it just looks like an affirmation of American constitutionalism, in a sense.
Heffernan: I mean, I wish it never had to come to this, obviously. And they have overplayed their hand so much on the aesthetics. Bovino walking around like Il Duce in the streets of Minneapolis is just—that’s going to bother anyone with any memory or who’s ever seen a movie set in the twentieth century.
Heffernan: They pull out the children, and then there are all these images that make him look very short and small, and he’s easily parodied. And then also, if you haven’t ever seen a movie about Mussolini—there are another group of conservatives, especially out west and in and around those red states, who remember Ruby Ridge, or they remember Waco, or they remember the threat that jackbooted government thugs would come.
Sargent: Well, just to close this out, what do you think is going to happen with the Republicans? It’s very clear that the discomfort is extremely palpable. I think a lot of it is political, obviously, because they now see that this is a catastrophe potentially for them in the midterms. Do you think this gets worse among Republicans for Trump, or do you think there will have to be actual changes or not?
You know, it’s like when you said Trump didn’t seem to have his fastball—sort of look to people who do have their fastball, and Thom Tillis and Marjorie Taylor Greene still are making sense when they talk. They don’t sound like doublespeak Soviets trying to explain things. They sound like they have a clear vision, and that suggests it’s something worth sticking with, I’ll say.
Heffernan: So good to talk to you, Greg. Thanks.
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