Greg Sargent: This is The Daily Blast from The New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
We’re asking former federal prosecutor Barb McQuade to walk us through just how irregular all this really is and what can be done about it. Barb, good to have you back on.
Sargent: So a former Olympian, David Hearn, and several others had been facing vandalism charges for supposedly ripping up the bottom of the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool, because Trump was badly embarrassed by the failure of his renovation of it. But then Jeanine Pirro, the U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., dropped the case, admitting the problem was shoddy construction. Barb, can you just sum up how we got to this point?
One is that you have to prove that the person acted knowingly and willfully. That is, that they intended to do damage, that they acted maliciously. And the one that I always thought they would have problems proving is that they caused damage exceeding $1,000 in value.
Nonetheless, Jeanine Pirro indicted this case, in my opinion, because it advanced Donald Trump’s false narrative that the reason his renovations to the Reflecting Pool failed were not because of his own mismanagement, but because of vandals. And so Mr. Hearn provided a convenient scapegoat, even though it meant perhaps ruining his life.
Donald Trump (voiceover): I think she choked because the judge was really vicious. Instead of going after the people that did it, the judge went after her and went after her department. And I guess she choked. I don’t know what the hell happened.
Trump (voiceover): I don’t know what you—you don’t—you’re fake news. Don’t ever talk again. You’re fake news. One of the worst of the business.
McQuade: Yes, it does seem that President Trump wants to call the shots, as we’ve seen with cases being filed against Jim Comey for seashells and Letitia James for mortgage fraud—cases that have fallen apart. He really seems to think that he can just demand that lawyers file indictments against his enemies and it will be so. And maybe if they follow his orders, they can file indictments, but they’re never going to get convictions unless they have evidence to prove each and every element of a crime.
And that’s why one of the principles of federal prosecution that was promulgated after Watergate is that prosecutors should bring indictments only if they believe the evidence is sufficient to convict a defendant at trial, and that that conviction can be sustained on appeal. You’re not supposed to just take a flyer, or let’s see what we can make stick. You have to believe you have the evidence.
Sargent: Right. And then Donald Trump got so angry at her that she decided she had to go to the White House to talk him out of his fury. Sources have now leaked to CBS News that Pirro went to the White House this week with a box full of physical evidence that exculpated all those people of vandalism, in order to persuade Trump that the culprit was in fact bad construction. The meeting got heated, according to CBS.
McQuade: Yeah, it’s really a complete change from the way the Justice Department has operated in the post-Watergate era. In fact, most administrations, including Trump’s first administration, have issued memos reminding prosecutors that they are not to have contact about case decisions with the White House. That is both to prevent actual interference or even the appearance of interference with charging decisions on the basis of partisan politics.
And the idea that Jeanine Pirro has to come over and say, look at this evidence, Mr. President, here are my receipts, I really did make the right decision—I mean, even William Barr, when he took the job as attorney general, said he did so only on the condition that President Trump not interfere with his decisions about charging cases, that he would base decisions on the facts, on the law, and the fair administration of justice, and Donald Trump would butt out. According to Barr, Trump agreed to that during that first term.
Sargent: Well, The Washington Post reports on more leaks—that this whole thing has sparked tirades inside the White House. Barb, what’s funny about Pirro going over to Trump with physical facts is she thinks those will persuade him to come to his senses and stop raging at her. But this is the essence of it, Barb.
McQuade: Yeah, I think that’s right. I mean, and it really goes back to, I think, a couple of data points that provide real insight into his strategy. Remember when there was an effort to declare that the 2020 presidential election was rife with fraud? And he was trying to convince Justice Department leaders to go along with that and make an announcement. And remember what he said is, just say there was fraud in the election and leave the rest to me.
Sargent: I want to bring up something that Secretary of the Interior Doug Burgum said about this thing, because I think it really gets at the corrupt nature of it. After Pirro dropped this case, Burgum went out on Twitter and contested her dropping it.
Trump’s lackeys will, like, sell each other out for a tiny bit of good favor from the despot. And of course that’s always, like, fleeting, and it’ll be followed by him turning on them at some point anyway. You can kind of see how the corruption seeps down from the top in that one Doug Burgum tweet.
And so it is really disturbing that someone like Doug Burgum, a Cabinet secretary, would be willing to make these statements really just to indulge Donald Trump in his fantasies. Everybody involved in this knows that these claims are false. But I suppose this is the way one stays in good stead.
Sargent: Yeah, it’s really hard to know what goes through the head of someone like Thom Tillis, who shows a lot of integrity and courage and then at the last second just throws it all away for nothing.
Sargent: This whole Reflecting Pool fiasco is completely buffoonish and a total embarrassment for Trump and so forth. And yet at the same time it’s deadly serious, right? It’s an indicator that Trump is getting worse with his willingness to just use DOJ as a weapon in whatever way he decides at any given moment.
McQuade: Well, I mean, we could see more of these weaponized prosecutions. The seashell case against Jim Comey, the effort to investigate what they’re calling the grand conspiracy out of Florida. I mean, imagine charges against people like John Brennan or other members of the intelligence community who are simply serving their country, charges against Anthony Fauci. I mean, I think we could see charges on any of these fronts.
Sargent: There’s a lot to worry about. It sounds like you’re basically saying we can’t rule out the possibility that Trump will put innocent people in jail.
Sargent: Absolutely. You wrote this book. It’s called The Fix: Saving America from the Corruption of a Mob-Style Government. Great title, that very much applies right here, unfortunately. What can a Democratic House, or a Democratic House and Senate, do to stop DOJ from bringing corrupt prosecutions against Trump critics, and against whoever the despot orders them to? What can be done?
They have the ability to defund programs if they think the funds are not being spent in a responsible way. That includes the judgment fund. And this one has become—was once kind of a sleepy financial problem, but now I think has come in the news. What Congress does is it funds this huge pot of money called the judgment fund. And then it trusts the Justice Department to use its discretion and best judgment to dole out settlements, or to make judgments when there are verdicts in court.
Now what we see is the use of the judgment fund to pay people like Michael Flynn and Carter Page. I think one of the things they could do is what they used to do, and that is to fund judgments on an individual basis. And if they find that the Justice Department is acting in bad faith, they could decline to provide those funds. So I think between oversight and the power of the purse, they have a lot of power there to rein in the Department of Justice. And of course, they also have the power of impeachment, which includes the power to impeach the attorney general.
Some of these bills did things like really build a real firewall between DOJ and the White House. Presumably a Democratic House and Senate could pass that kind of thing, challenge Trump to veto it, and then have a big political fight over these reforms, which I think would poll very well. What do you think of that idea?
I mean, Donald Trump has certainly pushed the boundaries of executive power. I think we need Congress to do the same, assert its own power, its own legislative power, so that we don’t have this failure of equilibrium that we seem to be in right now.
Barb McQuade, always awesome to talk to you. Thank you so much for all that.
McQuade: Thank you, Greg.
Hence then, the article about transcript trump seethes at reflecting pool mess as damning leaks hit was published today ( ) and is available on The New Republic ( Middle East ) The editorial team at PressBee has edited and verified it, and it may have been modified, fully republished, or quoted. You can read and follow the updates of this news or article from its original source.
Read More Details
Finally We wish PressBee provided you with enough information of ( Transcript: Trump Seethes at Reflecting Pool Mess as Damning Leaks Hit )
Also on site :
- Who Wins 'The Challenge: Cutthroat'? Season 42 Spoilers, Eliminations, Disqualifications and Finalists
- Piramal Pharma Solutions agrandit son site de production d'API peptidiques avec l'ajout d'une unité de séchage par atomisation de pointe
- Wizards Beyond Waverly Place Series Finale Reveals [Spoiler]'s Shocking Fate; David Henrie Says It Was The 'Cleanest' Choice