Greg Sargent: This is The Daily Blast from The New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
Jennifer Rubin: Good to see you too.
Jen, not long ago, we were still being told that Trump and the GOP are “strong” on immigration and that Democrats don’t dare engage on it. Funny how quickly this turned around, isn’t it?
So I think they have come around. But in fairness, Trump also overplayed his hand again and again. And that’s what he does. That is the big advantage that we have, is that he doesn’t know when to stop. He can’t stop himself. And as you pointed out, there’s some in his base that want him to double down again.
Jen, Republicans are violating Trump’s first commandment, which is that you always portray Trump as formidable and dominant and never admit Trump is on the losing side of anything. What happened here with these Republicans?
According to Chris Murphy, whom I spoke to earlier today, his colleagues report that this past weekend they received the largest number of calls to their offices ever. And that’s considering healthcare, that’s considering COVID, a zillion other issues over the past decade or so. This has really touched a nerve and they are running scared.
And yet they are hearing all about this stuff day in and day out. They’re seeing videos of it. They’re seeing videos of Kristi Noem lie about it. They’re seeing videos of Stephen Miller call murder victims a “domestic terrorist” and worse. This is penetrating into information spaces where low-information voters hang out. And that, I think, has got people in a panic.
They have always thought they control the culture wars, but in fact, they control it in a very narrow stratum of their own base. And when it gets out to the population at large—when what Richard Nixon called the “silent majority” hear about this stuff—they don’t like it. There was just a poll out today from Pew. Trump’s approval ratings on everything from the economy to immigration are in the toilet.
And when you have the entire country in an uproar, and when you have, as you say, these low-information voters suddenly activated, then and only then do Republicans get a clue. And so I think we are at this inflection point. And the question is what we do with it.
Nick Fuentes (voiceover): You feel bad about this race trader? If you’re out there throwing yourself in front of ICE to die for these dirt bags, let them. Let them. One less asshole in the world. One less traitor in the world.
Megyn Kelly (voiceover): I know I’m supposed to feel sorry for Alex Preti, but I don’t. I don’t. Do you know why I wasn’t shot by Border Patrol this weekend? Because I kept my ass inside and out of their operations.
Matt Walsh (voiceover): The first conclusion is that Alex Pretti was part of an organized campaign to legally obstruct law enforcement operations on behalf of open borders communists who want to destroy the country. He was a domestic terrorist.
Steve Bannon (voiceover): President Trump, you’ve got that’s a opening salvo that you should now invoke the Insurrection Act and flood the zone with troops, either federalized National Guard or good old bring in go to Fort Bragg where Todd Wood is and bring in the good old 82nd Airborne.
Rubin: No. It seems like just yesterday, by the way, anyone who said a harsh word about Charlie Kirk was fired, set upon by the media horde, and all the rest. Remember when we were hearing that the left is responsible for all of this vitriol and all of this violence? I guess we were right—it’s really projection on their part.
So on one hand, Fox now sounds semi-normal at times as they’re panicked on behalf of Donald Trump. You have the bomb-throwers, literally and figuratively, who are egging this on. And by the way, we haven’t talked much about the Second Amendment crowd. Trump, of course, has made the mistake of very visibly throwing one of his key constituents under the bus. And that is the Second Amendment crowd.
Sargent: Right. If you lawfully carry a gun and you show up at a protest, God, you’re asking for it.
And the aim should be to exploit these divides, to widen the gap and get them pointing fingers at each other. You now have Kristi Noem pointing the finger at Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller backtracking and saying, “Well, maybe these people didn’t follow protocol after all.” [In doing this, Miller is in effect blaming Noem, since she runs DHS, and CBP is under DHS]. This is what we want. It’s usually that the finger-pointing is on the Democratic side. Republicans are notorious for being lockstep in unanimity with one another, but this is one of those instances where they won’t be. And Democrats have to exploit it. They have to push and push and push.
But these other Republicans who represent swing territory—or suburban or exurban areas—they want Trump’s crackdown to proceed without too much obvious violence. “Keep it clean, guys.” And without too much white nationalism making swing voters uncomfortable. That’s the split. What do you make of it?
So I think we shouldn’t kid ourselves that there are any moderate Republicans left, or any multicultural Republicans, or anyone on their side who really believes in democratic pluralism—but they are absolutely panicked for exactly this reason. All those people whose quotes you read care about ratings. They don’t care about getting elected. And that’s the difference.
Sargent: Well, so to your point about the need to exploit this moment to really exacerbate the split—which is a real one within MAGA—let’s talk about that. Beyond the sort of very short-term deal-making around funding DHS and restricting ICE and so forth, what can Democrats do to exacerbate the split?
Rubin: I absolutely believe in that. And that’s one reason I think that it’s actually useful to impeach Kristi Noem—not because you’re going to get someone better, but you make Republicans defend her and make them go on record. Let’s see how Susan Collins is gonna vote. Let’s see how some of these swing Republicans in upstate New York are gonna vote.
And they can’t be afraid to call out this lawlessness, this violence, and to make them put themselves on the side of freedom. First Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Second Amendment—my gosh—and to make the case that this is what Republicans used to tell us we should be afraid of. The government is going to come to your door. Tyranny is going to knock. Guess what? The tyranny is them. And the people who are going to protect you are not Republicans; they are the Democrats who do not think the state should be all-powerful.
Sargent: Well, the country really is awake to what’s happening. And you wrote in your piece that one of the critical things that has to happen right now is that Democrats have to figure out how to feed and sustain this mass movement—this big cultural moment that’s sweeping the country. What can Democrats do to keep that going?
It’s not enough to simply say, “We want judicial warrants when you go into somebody’s house.” How about no arrests, period, without specific warrants? And ICE should not be going after people who do not have criminal records. Push the advantage.
What gets people motivated? The picture of a five-year-old in a bunny hat, quite frankly; the sight of Alex Pretti being beaten and executed in the street. We can bemoan the fact that it shouldn’t come to this, that we should have gotten the country much more riled up a long time ago. But the fact that they’re there now needs to make it an absolute priority for Democrats to stand by and alongside those people who are being victimized—and the victims are all of us. It’s not simply undocumented immigrants.
That’s the kind of action that will get people to rise to the Democrats’ cause. Do not rely on the legal precedent that was in effect a year ago or two years ago. Push the envelope. That’s what Republicans do. Make the claims. Bring the cases. Bring the lawsuits. Demand that we get the evidence of this impropriety. And then people will understand that you are fighting for them and with them.
Jen Rubin, awesome to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on.
Sargent: You as well. We’re loving The Contrarian; you’re doing great work.
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