She is indelibly "mumsy" and probably always has been, a robust woman even though only 5ft 2in, slightly wary and a bit defensive at times, so it was no surprise when she wagged a finger at me and warned, "If you use the words ‘nutty’ or ‘wacky’ I shall be very cross." We had escaped temporarily from the rigorous subject of her first television performance for four years — as an expert in the satanic ritual abuse of children — to a more comforting although abstruse discussion of radionics, a form of healing based on the theory that every organ of the body gives out vibrations that can be diagnosed.
Ho hum, I think, as she says sternly, "I have found that it works. It’s been used on horses for years. It used to be called ‘putting your horse on the box’. They take a piece of hair, or clipping from a hoof, put it in a box and send it to the practitioner who ‘douses’ it to find out what’s wrong. The same process works with humans. If you go to a practitioner in person, he puts a metal plate on the stomach and uses a machine in order to get vibrations through his fingertips."
She hoped to keep her mind in equal trim by studying physics, but this was doomed. "It was hard for me to get my brain around it." Recently, though, she dipped into one of her son’s science books and learnt about Erwin Schrödinger’s cat, an experiment to do with observation. "Does the cat exist inside a box when we’re not looking at it? Does matter exist at all, or is it only in our minds? I came to the conclusion, on my own, that time goes in little peaks and troughs. My son told me if I’d been born 100 years ago I’d have been a genius for working it out. I’m a bit late for that and I can’t understand what I’m saying — I can only picture it in my mind — so you won’t understand either. You’ll have to read the book." Before that enthralling experience there is this interview to conduct in real time and real space, and she is helpful and giggly, although never flamboyant. She puts herself down a lot, particularly her looks: "You have to be realistic about yourself. I have limitations which would prevent me playing Helen of Troy. Most people don’t think they’re beautiful, including some of the most stunning women in the world, like Michelle Pfeiffer. Do you think you are beautiful?" Now it is her turn to scoff, albeit without hauteur. "You notice your faults rather than strong points, which makes it particularly difficult to be an actor, except sometimes you’re chosen for your flaws. I’m sure I’ve been hired for being round with short legs. All my reviews say ‘cuddly’, ‘plump’ or ‘cosy’. I was perfect for Shirley Valentine, my favourite part. It’s a hard act to follow." She was nominated for an Oscar for the 1989 film.
She and John, whom she met when they were both in Emergency Ward 10, a sixties soap, and married in 1969, are so "normal" she became irritated by their image as "that sweet couple who never fight. Sickening, isn’t it?" she says. There’s been less of that since they stopped working together after their last series, Evergreen. "I’m sure we’ll find something in the future that we’d both love to do. The good thing about being married to an actor," she adds, "is he understands — and forgives — your problems."
But sometimes, perhaps, two competing egos may become too oppressive even for a large Hampstead house? She looks disdainful. "Who have you found like that? Journalists love to think all actors are bitchy and jealous. Name me one who is." I suggest several but they don’t count, she says, because they’re American. Even if there were such a thing, it seems unwise to suggest an English actor who might suffer the teeniest pangs of envy. "We’re all supportive and spend so much time touching because we have to get to know each other in ten minutes. You can meet an actor in the morning and be in bed with him in the afternoon, professionally speaking. And then there’s that ‘luvvie’ word. We’re so bored with it. You’ve got to find another one to describe actors."
Flowers of the Forest was the first TV script she’d been shown for a long time that she felt impelled to do. She plays a Welsh child abuse expert, Aileen Matthews, trained by an evangelical American organisation called the New Morning Trust, which believes there is a worldwide conspiracy of SRA — satanic ritual abuse. It is based in part on real-life cases in which children have been removed forcibly from their parents after similar suspicions had been aroused, and shows how easy it is for doubters to be convinced by a fervent conspiracy theorist like Aileen.
"I had a wonderful childhood myself and was never abused. Perhaps I’m in the minority. I haven’t had counselling, although friends have. At times everyone needs help. In the old days it came from the priest but as society becomes less religious we look for different helpers. I was raised a Catholic but I’m not a good example. I believe it would be best if all religions joined together rather than remained separate. I probably used to have Catholic guilt [she once said she’d felt guilty all her life], particularly about working when the children were young, but I don’t any more. I decided it wasn’t a good thing."
Still, there’s violence in life, so is it reflecting art or is art reflecting life? Who knows? "I persevere and would like to continue but, as you grow older, there’s a natural falling off of your desire to work so much. My ambition is to be the female version of Denholm Elliot. He found himself a wonderful niche. I also want to smell the roses and travel. I went to Indonesia earlier this year with my youngest son, Richard, who’s 19. He was doing his round-the-world gap year and didn’t have a companion for the first bit so asked me to go with him. I was surprised, but we get on tremendously well." Their daughter Kate is an actress and their other son, Nick, is a writer and director — "much more difficult than acting". She should know.
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