Greg Sargent:This is The Daily Blast from the New Republic, produced and presented by the DSR Network. I’m your host, Greg Sargent.
Asawin Suebsaeng: Thank you so much for having me, Greg. It’s good to be back.
Suebsaeng: Sure, and think something that’s important to underscore here is that this is not a guy that literally every fire breather or MAGA diehard in the upper echelons of the government wanted to be ousted. We had heard from multiple sources over the weekend that top Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Pam Bondi, including her deputy Todd Blanch, did not want this guy ousted. They thought that would be a bad idea, not just because it would be a quote unquote bad look or anything like that, but they thought he was helpful and good at what he was doing. But to the president of the United States, that does not matter. If you cannot execute a very MAGA fried version of show me the man and I’ll show you the crime, Donald Trump gives you a zero. You get an incomplete on the exam. So that’s where we’re at right now.
Suebsaeng: So when someone like Pam Bondi is saying, let’s pump the brakes on this, maybe we shouldn’t just completely ask this guy just because he’s starting to make Donald Trump mad. That says something. This is, there are no more John Kelly’s or Mark Esper’s of the world surrounding Donald Trump in the first term to try to tell him, maybe you shouldn’t shoot American civilians in the street just because you were mad anymore.
Now, I’m not here to say anything as lofty as, Pam Bondi, welcome to the resistance, or anything like that. I’m not naive or stupid. What I am saying is that it is showing you, to use a polite term, how much Donald Trump and his chief lieutenants are pushing the envelope when it comes to this administration and how much authoritarianism and how much autocracy and democratic backsliding they want to get away with. It’s starting to get too much in isolated individual respects, even for the Pam Bondis of the world.
Suebsaeng: I mean, there have been moments in our history where incredibly corrupt presidents like Richard Nixon have tried to disappear the line between their political interest and the supposed independence of main justice and the DOJ. So there have been moments in our history where the very dark chapters have brought that conflict to the fore, but Trump is turbocharging that in a very, for lack of a better term right now, Trumpian respect, where there’s not even a veneer of intellectual capacity or philosophy here. It’s just stating openly, whether on purpose sometimes and whether accidentally perhaps at other times, that there is no line. There is no imaginary norm or wall that Donald Trump and Stephen Miller and JD Vance want to abide by. The Department of Justice is a wholly owned subsidiary of MAGA and Donald Trump’s political whims as long as he is the nominal leader of the free world. And we get to a point over the weekend where he is basically shouting on his social media platform, Truth Social, Pam, just call her Pam like she’s someone at the yacht club or whatever, not like she’s a literal top federal law enforcer in the country. You gotta do this because it’s starting to shred our credibility. It’s starting to make me look bad. It’s starting to make me mad. And you gotta appoint one of my former personal attorneys, Lindsay Halligan, to this position to do it because she likes you a lot. It’s very casual. And in that sense, given what he’s trying to do, very grotesque, the way he’s talking about this and the related personnel deceiver. And he is just posting it on his own personal company and social media site where he is saying something that in any other presidential era, even the first Trump administration, would be a generation defining presidential scandal. And he’s just posting about it on his stupid fucking Truth Social app on a random Saturday night.
Suebsaeng: Something I just want to say up front to your listeners is that for those of you who read that Saturday night Truth social post and thought there is no way that that could have been meant as a text or a private message of some sort to Pam Bondi, I assure you it definitely could have been that. I have been shown enough private messages that Trump has sent to an assortment of people in recent years to the point where it really drives home the point that yes, this is how this fucking idiot texts people in the privacy of his quieter moments. They oftentimes do look like tweets or Truth Social posts.
Suebsaeng: Yeah. And also have rambling bullshit in it that, it’s like, you don’t need to tell Pam Bondi this. She’s already on board with the whole project. Like you don’t have to repeat her things that you keep wanting to tell the hundreds of millions of American people who you want to propagandize to. So with that and the fact that the way it was worded where he’s saying like, Lindsay Halligan really likes you, comma, a lot, comma, whatever the fuck. And it just, the other little flourishes in it, it really made senior officials in the administration, including DOJ, including the White House and elsewhere, like just think to themselves in real time over the weekend, did the president mean to put this on the internet? Whether he meant to put that out in public initially or whether it was meant as a private message, it certainly came off. as something that he wanted to send to Pam Bondi privately to a bunch of people working for Donald Trump. But as you pointed out, as we found in our reporting, there were a lot of people in the administration, including perhaps Donald Trump himself, who were like, let’s just go with it. Let’s just pretend I tripped over my own dick in public and, you know, fucking meant to do that anyway. Forget it, let’s go with it.
Suebsaeng: No, absolutely. And look, like, whether he wanted that initially to be public or private, I have no doubt that in one form or another, this would have probably pretty soon bled over into the public domain. And I think I know that because he’s already done a lot of bleeding into the public domain on these very impulses and on these very orders. He and the Steven Millers of the world, and the JD Vances of the world, and the Karoline Leavitts of the world—and particularly the Donald J. Trumps of the world—are not making any secret of the fact that they think the Department of Justice is their plaything and that they can launch criminal investigations against Trump’s personal and political enemies just because they feel like it. They want the entire world to know that. Now, that message in the way he wrote it, including how he described that him and his administration’s credibility and reputation were being murdered. Maybe he wouldn’t have put it that way publicly initially necessarily if he had all of his druthers. But the broader sentiment of like, you need to do this. It’s not getting done. Everybody around me needs to be pushed to crack down as hard as I want on the things, however arbitrary that I want to have cracked down upon. That’s just the ethos of the second Trump term. That is the operating principle of the entirety of the Trump project as we currently see it.
Selina Wang (voiceover): And so he suppressed it, saying here it doesn’t matter if there’s a crime he just wants his political enemies to be charged.
Sargent: Swin, no doubt she doesn’t answer directly. She filibusters a bunch about Letitia James and she claims that Trump has been exonerated when in fact the penalty was tossed up, but the fraud judgment stood. And she simply reasserts that there’s evidence of James’s guilt glossing over the fact that this prosecutor investigated it for five months and found nothing. Swinn, here’s what I want to ask. How can they actually talk their way around this one? This is a Republican career prosecutor who did Trump’s bidding in investigating this thing that was cooked up by one of his allies at this agency that oversees mortgage fraud and found nothing there. They have absolutely no way to spend this at this point. And yet Karoline Leavitt believes that she can just absolutely gaslight the shit out of the whole press corps. I think the impudence of this, the almost boldness of it is kind of breathtaking. What do you think?
Sargent: Exactly.
Sargent: Right. He did them.
Their electoral philosophy in the modern day Republican Party and within Trump land is that with elections, it’s heads I win, tails you lose. And when it comes to the supposedly impartial or equal or fair application of justice in this land, it’s nothing but favors and grace and all the coverage in the world for Donald Trump and his rich pals and nothing but the stick and contempt and jail time, whether aspiring or real, for his enemies. And anybody in the White House press corps who I see even slightly out of source greasing, entertaining what the Trump White House has been putting out. When Trump and his minions keep saying, these two things are the same, or I’m the one who was victimized. It is nothing but beneath my contempt. Whenever I hear people willing to even entertain that amount of spin and bullshit, because to call it spin is even elevating it further past a point that which it is. It’s just authoritarian lies. That’s it.
Suebsaeng: I’ll try to be less mad the next time you have me on. Thank you so much, Greg.
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